The following is a lightly edited transcript of the May 26 episode of the Daily Blast podcast. Listen to it here.
After we recorded, The New York Times posted a piece reporting at length that Trump’s ballroom, slush fund, and overall “self-indulgence” (translation: deranged megalomania) have “alarmed” Republicans about the midterms, again confirming the thrust of this conversation.
Greg Sargent: This is The Daily Blast from The New Republic, produced and presented by the DSR Network. I’m your host, Greg Sargent.
Donald Trump has been spinning wildly about his success in ousting disloyal Republicans in primaries, and he has been succeeding at that. But underneath this story is a much bigger truth. Trump is losing control of the GOP on many fronts, and his political project is failing more broadly. Trump’s corruption is forcing Republicans to abandon him, and he’s trying really hard to turn that around, as a crazed tirade on Truth Social reveals. There are other signs of failure too. For instance, the Kilmar Abrego Garcia criminal case was just dismissed as a vindictive prosecution.
We’re trying to make sense of all this with New Republic deputy editor Jason Linkins, who’s been arguing well that Trump’s corruption and criminality are actually political liabilities for him. Jason, thanks for coming on.
Jason Linkins: It’s great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Sargent: So here’s where we are. Trump succeeds in ousting a bunch of disloyal Republicans, but that’s now backfiring. Republicans are so pissed that they’re granting him less leeway on his corruption. They’re turning against the funding for the ballroom.
Republican senators just unloaded on acting Attorney General Todd Blanche over the slush fund. House Republicans shelved a vote on a measure ending the war because they didn’t have the votes to defeat it. Jason, how do you explain this sudden GOP move against him?
Linkins: Right now, I think that we’re seeing both the strengths and the limitations of Trump’s thrall, his hold on the party and his base. We’ve seen in a couple of elections now that his base, when they’re riled up, are still capable of dealing a primary defeat to a Republican that steps out of line of Trump.
But the cartoon villainy has gotten to a point that, outside of a rump that I think you’ve argued in the past—and I believe you’re going to be correct—is starting to shrink, he doesn’t really have the same kind of power and influence. We’ve seen now on a few votes, and specifically some related to what I would term graft corruption—this ballroom he wants to build and this insane slush fund that he wanted to assemble for himself to dole out to his political allies—you’re seeing prominent elite GOP electeds balk at this.
Sargent: Trump just let out an angry, self-pitying rant on Truth Social over the slush fund. He said this:
“I gave up a lot of money in allowing the just announced Anti-Weaponization Fund to go forward. I could have settled my case, including the illegal release of my Tax Returns and the equally illegal BREAK IN of Mar-a-Lago, for an absolute fortune. Instead, I am helping others, who were so badly abused by an evil, corrupt, and weaponized Biden Administration, receive, at long last, JUSTICE!”
Jason, that’s funny because the original lawsuit that he filed against the IRS that he gave up was a total scam. That aside, the idea that Trump is setting up a slush fund to reward allies in an act of great selflessness and public service is just a farce. Your thoughts on that?
Linkins: Well, I think one thing that stands out to me is the fake magnanimity that he’s trying to project in that statement. He had the good fortune of negotiating both sides of the settlement. There was no real conflict.
The conflict was to get this matter out from under the auspices of a judge who was prepared to call this whole lawsuit bogus. And he had the good fortune of having a Justice Department that essentially treats him as a client.
There used to be consequences for stuff like Teapot Dome or Watergate. But this Republican Party is so clapped out and absented that there’s no accountability possible until, you know, such when the day comes and perhaps Democrats have power again.
Sargent: I’ve not seen a Republican uprising like this in a long time against Donald Trump. It doesn’t happen that often. But this one, according to all the reporting, there was genuine anger from Republican senators at Todd Blanche for sticking them in this position.
The ballroom is already a problem for them. You’ve had Republicans telling the press that they don’t want to defend the ballroom precisely because it’s impossible to do when there’s so much economic pain out there.
Now, Donald Trump is asking them to defend this ridiculous slush fund. And not only is it absurd and difficult for them to do because of the economy—the money would go to the January 6 insurrectionists and they won’t rule out giving the money to people who beat cops. This is not something that Republicans want to defend.
Linkins: There is some widespread contentiousness within the Republican caucus. Elite figures like Mitch McConnell are angry about this. The potency of a president who spends most of his time now—when he talks to reporters—talking about the stupid architecture projects he’s working on, renovating the White House, building an arch, spending money on himself, spending money on January Sixers, when there is a massive economic crisis happening. And it is all down to the fact that Donald Trump, again and again, pushed the “fuck up the economy” button instead of doing almost anything else to solve a problem.
It really is unsustainable. We’re putting pressure on the average American in all directions, all at once, economically, while this guy staples gold leaf to the White House wall. It’s unsustainable, and Republicans quite rightly understand that they’re going to potentially face a bloodbath in the midterm elections—up against a Democratic Party that hasn’t really sorted out their problems. The Democratic Party doesn’t have a gigantic approval rating advantage.
Sargent: I want to play a couple of things that Donald Trump said at a rally. Listen to this.
Donald Trump (voiceover): We had the greatest, most successful economy in history. And by the way, we’re blowing it away in this term. So today, today, today, we just—an amazing thing happened. They said it couldn’t happen for four years. An amazing thing. The Dow Jones hit 50,702. And the S&P is way over 7,000.
Sargent: And now listen to this.
Trump (voiceover): They would constantly come out with the word “affordability.” I said, “they’re the ones that caused the problem.” I’m in the office two days. I mean, they are the greatest bullshit artists, really. I’m in the office two days. And the costs have gone through the roof under four years of Sleepy Joe or Crooked Joe—or both, Biden, right? And I hear these Democrats from all over the place going, “affordability.” They’re the ones that caused it! I didn’t cause it.
Sargent: Well, that’s just unbelievably out of touch with what’s actually going on. Jason, the new Fox News poll has Trump’s approval on the economy at 29 percent to 71 percent disapproval. On inflation, it’s 24 percent to 76 percent—fewer than one in four American voters approves of Trump’s handling of inflation—and he’s out there extolling the stock market and mocking the idea of affordability. Could that be more disconnected from reality?
Linkins: I mean, those polls indicate that the bad economy is penetrating very deeply into the American psyche. These are numbers that are below 30 percent. Maybe if we somehow crab-walk our way out of this conflict in Iran, there could be some movement back towards equilibrium. But that doesn’t change the fact that this party has more or less abandoned the idea of crafting policy.
They are now basically a full-time media operation, trolling and creating content. And the president is checked out. He is building a ballroom, building a triumphal arch, and posting on Truth Social long into the night. This isn’t a party that’s going to solve a problem or turn anything around.
There is no future turnaround coming as long as Trump and the GOP are in power. They cannot fix this because they’re congenitally, physiologically incapable of doing it. They really are.
Sargent: Just to close this out, you had this great piece recently arguing that corruption is a much more pressing political issue in the minds of voters than our media elites allow for. We saw this in the Hungary election. And I think we’re now seeing it in the Republican panic about Donald Trump’s corruption as well.
They’re figuring out that this corruption is a serious problem for them. But critically, it’s all being exacerbated by a couple of things. One is the disastrous economy, the way everyday people are experiencing it. And number two, it’s the way Trump talks about the economy.
Linkins: The anti-corruption message, first of all, it reaches your turnout voters, the people you need to be coming to the polls to add to the base—the ones that you want to be extra coming to the polls, adding to the masses you’ve already got. It’s also a great message for independent voters, the kind of people that might shift in direction either way. Corruption really sits poorly with independents. I think even you made this point in a recent piece.
So it is a very potent message. And I think what’s interesting about this message is that it is a hub for all kinds of other political messages. Because when you talk about corruption, you can also talk about the erosion of our democracy. When you talk about corruption, you can also talk about the decimation of our civil service. When you talk about corruption, you can talk about the self-dealing, the scandalous self-enrichment that this administration has basically built a White House to do—just make themselves rich while everyone else goes without.
Back in 2012, one ad of Mitt Romney talking to elite donors as martini glasses clinked in the background—such a potent moment. People understand what’s going on when they see these images, when they hear these words, and it turns them off.
Through corruption you get to link it to Silicon Valley robber barons and the outrage of data centers being built in small towns, killing jobs and raising energy prices. It is maybe the alpha and omega—well, the alpha. I’ll say this: the alpha is using this message to defeat Republicans in forthcoming elections. But the omega—this is where Democrats, if they’re successful, have got to redouble their courage.
The omega is then putting forth a real effort to hold these corrupt actors accountable, put them in jail, make sure there are consequences, hold them accountable. Because we cannot afford another era of looking forward to avoid looking backward. This is a criminal enterprise being run out of the White House. They cannot be allowed to stand. They cannot be allowed to fade into memory without punishment being doled out.
Sargent: I think that’s really well said. And I think you captured something really essential in pointing out that the Democratic Party, number one, knows how to run against corruption, and number two, finally seems to get the assignment this time. Jason Linkins, really awesome to talk to you, man. Thanks so much for coming on.
Linkins: Thanks for having me.