Transcript: Democrats Got Something Really Big Done in New Mexico

The following is a lightly edited transcript of the October 3 episode of
Right Now With Perry Bacon. You can watch this interview here.

Perry Bacon: I’m honored to be joined today by Michelle Lujan Grisham, the governor of the great state of New Mexico—a beautiful state. If you haven’t been, you should. Everyone should try to make it to Albuquerque or Santa Fe—those are the places I’ve been—but it’s a great state to visit. So I’m honored to have her here today.

We’ve talked a lot about negative things happening in America. We’re in the middle of a government shutdown. Donald Trump says things our audience doesn’t like pretty much every hour, I think. But there are also really great things happening in the states, and New Mexico is one of them. So, welcome, Governor

Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham: Thank you so much. And I’m going to do your podcast if I’m invited more often, if you’re going to promote tourism in my beautiful state. Little known fact, but New Mexico has quite literally, not just figuratively, the clearest airspace. So it’s why we’ve got a sort of space presence and a spaceport.

So that blue gorgeous sky and those clouds is an actual real thing here. And given that we just lost Robert Redford, he moved here because of that light and those colors and that clear space. So clear your heads, come to New Mexico and let us treat you right.

Bacon: Not just good weather, though, but because New Mexico is going to become in November the only state that has universal child care, no cost, universal free, you know, no cost, universal child care. So I want to talk to you about that.

That’s a great thing and a thing you got to shout out from the potential mayor of New York. Zohran Mamdani, who actually noted if New Mexico can do it, we can do it in New York. And maybe he’s right about that. We’ll see. But I have two questions. First of all, explain to the audience exactly how that would work in terms of universal child care. And then second, explain how you all did it.

Governor Lujan Grisham: All right, well, the first thing is—you said it, and thank you—it’s no cost. There’s no means testing. It’s not no cost for some, it’s no cost for all, because then you build a system based on quality. That’s what we want.

And we know it works, because we already have a universal pre-K system that’s free. Every three- and four-year-old has access to developmental pre-K. I’ll also tell you, I think it’s the number one program in America. So this blueprint for early education is something we’re really dedicated to.

The way we do that is we define child care and services as covering from three months old to twelve years old. So when parents think about before- and after-school care for grade school, now you’ve got those supports. We pay for that as well—because otherwise schools, particularly in poorer districts, don’t have it. And you need it. If you’re going to work, or go to college yourself, your schedule is eight to five, or seven-thirty to five-thirty.

Right now, we have 12,000 kids in that age group paying at some level for child care. Starting November 1, for those 12,000, it’s all free. They’re already in, they’ve got a place, they’ve chosen a provider—they’re good. There’s another 12,000 kids, from three months to twelve years old, now newly eligible for free child care. So we’re building a system even as we make it available.

And to make sure we can do that—particularly in rural areas—we’ve done two things. First, we’ve put real money, millions of dollars, into infrastructure: buying buildings, remodeling them, giving out no-cost, right-away grants to create new spaces. Second, we’re training educators and child care workers for free.

They’re paid $18 to $21 an hour, and they’re in the pipeline. While America has seen a decline, New Mexico’s seen a 60-plus percent increase in certified, licensed, trained early educators. They study neuroscience and child development. It’s fantastic.

And then there’s home care. We’re cutting bureaucratic nonsense, licensing and certifying home providers, and giving them support. So if they’ve got two kids now, they can go to four, and we can back them up. Of course, that care is free too.

We pay the providers directly. We don’t give the money to families—that’s too hard to manage and track. We just pay providers, with one mandate: you have to be available for ten hours. Because the biggest frustration in America is finding child care that’s only open three hours a day. So we invest in infrastructure. That’s how it works.

Bacon: So ten hours, and up to age twelve—that’s big. I don’t think I fully understood it.

Governor Lujan Grisham: Yeah. And people say, Oh my God, you’re going to add all these folks. Remember, 12,000 are already in child care—we don’t have to recreate those slots.

One last thing I didn’t say: we pay for quality. There’s a quality incentive. The more money we pay you, the higher your quality needs to be, based on our evaluations and parent feedback. So we’re driving a best-in-the-country response—not just free access, but the developmental side every family wants: the safest, highest-quality environment for their kids.

And I ran on this in 2018. We were going to lean into child care and pre-K. We were going to find creative ways to finance it. So I want America to know, I didn’t just do it overnight. We built this over six years. We started by creating a trust fund and a department.

States need revenue streams that work. I was able to do this without raising taxes—I actually lowered them—but we’ve got a robust energy economy. So I created a set-aside stream that doesn’t go into the general fund—separated it out a bit. We went from $300 million to $9 billion in six years, using some of that money along the way. That’s a huge reserve for child care.

Then we passed a constitutional amendment allowing us to use part of a $65 billion set of trust funds—the permanent funds, paid for by oil and gas taxes—for early education. That’s how we know it’s sustainable.

So the message to other states: create a department. Eight states have done that. Or create an agency. Bring all your services for little kids together. Leverage that expertise to build a system. Then find a revenue stream and create a trust fund. That’s the smartest path.

Right now, Wall Street—right, wrong, or indifferent—is a good place to get a return on investment. We’re seeing record returns. That means we can send that money back to the men and women who need support to make choices for their families.

Last thing: I don’t know how you don’t do it. It builds an economy. It creates workers. Parents can go to work when they want. We’re seeing record enrollment in higher education.

And of course, I’m the only state in America that pays for college—two-year, four-year, part-time, full-time, anywhere, anytime. We do trades too—CTE, apprenticeships, trades. There’s no wrong door when it comes to deciding what’s important to you and your family—where you want to work and who you want to be.

Bacon: A couple of important factors to note that I wanted you to talk about: you’re in a blue state, so your legislature is Democratic—that probably helps. On the other hand, New Mexico is not a super-wealthy state—no offense meant. So there’s a balance here. You’ve had to be strategic. There’s not just free money sitting around. You’ve had to really define and plan this out carefully.

Governor Lujan Grisham: You do. And every state will have to determine that for themselves—what revenue streams are going to work, how many kids they have, where the biggest challenges are. Forty-one states—forty-one—have child care payments that cost more than their mortgage payments. So states are trying to figure out affordable housing, how to pay down mortgages, how to lower development costs so the overall price comes down. They should do all that too.

But imagine if, at the same time, you’re increasing family income and household wealth. You know what New Mexico needs? Wage growth—and growth in overall family well-being and equity. Well, guess what? These efforts are doing just that. We have the highest wage growth in the country—or if I’m not exactly right, we’re tied or in second place. It shifts every quarter, but I believe we’re still first. We just had record growth in family income and well-being.

And when the Census Bureau looks at supplemental income for poverty, New Mexico’s trajectory is up. If you’re a poor state, that’s exactly what you want: individual income protection, gains, and wealth. Because if you don’t have that—particularly as a majority-minority state—you’re just repeating past mistakes. And that’s discriminatory toward the very men and women who built this great state. I’m reversing that trajectory for good.

Bacon: Talk about—I think you all just finished or are finishing—a special session there. I think that’s an important development, because the federal policy has been bad, at least from my point of view.

Governor Lujan Grisham: From my point of view, bad. I’ll give you that plug—you’re right. Bad.

Bacon: So talk about what you all are trying to do—addressing Medicaid cuts, other funding cuts. What was this special session about?

Governor Lujan Grisham: You got it. We asked the legislature for about $162 million to blunt the changes in Medicaid. It’s not enough—we’ve got a $20 billion problem over a decade because of the tax cuts for billionaires that this Congress passed. Folks tuning in need to understand—this is really bad for America. So New Mexico started with $162 million. Here’s what that does.

It funds PBS—because I’m about public broadcasting. That’s also early childhood. Where do you think some of the programming for early education comes from? Right there. So we funded that. We’re putting money into a Medicaid trust fund—the same model as the early childhood and child care trust.

It’ll help blunt that $20 billion problem over the long haul. Create a trust fund, put money into it, build a revenue stream—so we don’t have to make draconian cuts later. We’re also creating a patient affordability fund. Because if they don’t extend Affordable Care Act premium subsidies, health care premiums in New Mexico nearly double. That means people stop buying insurance, and the only care they get is in emergency rooms—which overwhelms my hospitals. So we’re blunting that problem. That’s the result of the shutdown. And we need to act now because people are enrolling in private insurance this month, in November.

We’ve protected New Mexicans there. Two last things: we’re putting $50 million into rural health centers that are losing money because of this mess—keeping their doors open by covering their losses. And we’re putting millions into food assistance, since that’s also been gutted. I want New Mexicans to know—you can’t have free child care but not be able to feed your family. You need both.This is a state—and a Democratic legislature—that has your back. And I’ll say this: there were a few Republicans who voted with us, and I’m really grateful to them. They recognized who they work for—everyday New Mexicans, Republicans and Democrats alike, who deserve a fair shake from their government. And that’s what they’re getting in New Mexico right now.

Bacon: All right, let’s move to where things are not moving as quickly—or as effectively—and that’s Washington, D.C. You served in Congress for about six years, so you’ve got some experience there. The Republicans control Washington, so this shutdown is ultimately about them. That said, Democrats in Congress have decided to take a stand—pushing hard for Obamacare subsidies, Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements, and the idea that Donald Trump should follow the budgets passed by Congress and not just make up laws as he sees fit. Do you agree with that stand?

Governor Lujan Grisham: You know, I actually have to say—I’m not a big fan of shutdowns. I’ve got 20,000-plus workers who aren’t going to get paid. I’ve got serious issues with our parks. And this may sound like a small thing, but it really isn’t.

There’s a beautiful federal park in northern New Mexico called Valles Caldera—a pristine wilderness. They open it up once a year through a lottery. People wait their whole lives to get picked for a specialized hunt. This is an outdoor recreation state. A hunting state. Folks feed their families with that elk hunt. And now it’s gone.

So it may sound small, but if that’s how you were going to feed your family for the winter—it’s a big damn deal. So it’s all of the above. I don’t like shutdowns. But this is a Trump shutdown.

Congress has an obligation to figure it out—but he sets the agenda. He refuses to negotiate. He doesn’t care about everyday Americans. He promised to lower costs, to have people’s backs. He’s delivered the opposite. He’s made life harder for Americans—and for New Mexicans.

So I think it’s time for Congress to understand that the burden he’s created means Republicans are voting against their own constituents. Democrats are saying, maybe it’s time for Republicans to show some backbone. I get it—that’s a worthwhile debate. But I’m really disappointed that we’re here.

And when people say, Well, we could have done a clean CR for another twenty days, this is what I say to America: Republicans are right here—except when they passed that tax break for billionaires. They didn’t have your back then. They haven’t had your back on a single appropriations bill. The president’s done nothing to lower inflation or costs.

Why would any American—Democrat or Republican—believe they’ll meet their end of the bargain this time? It’s like Charlie Brown with Lucy holding the football. No, thank you. Hand me the football—I’ll run for the touchdown.

Maybe it’s time we stop listening to this congressional rhetoric. This president did this to us. He should immediately demand that those subsidies and inflation reduction strategies get into the CR. That’s leadership. This is on him.

Bacon: Let me finish with two questions—one silly, one more serious. The silly one: I didn’t check before this call, but I don’t know if there are any direct flights from Albuquerque to Des Moines.

Governor Lujan Grisham: Likely no.

Bacon: Thanks. So I’m going to ask—since you’ve been a very effective governor—are you considering running for president? And second, the broader question: you’re in a majority-minority state, and the narrative is that Democrats have lost ground with Latino voters. You were, to your credit, forceful with then-President Biden about whether he was the right person at that moment. So: are you considering running? And more broadly, what should Democrats be thinking about to win future elections?

Governor Lujan Grisham: I’ll take the second part first. The Democratic Party needs to stop worrying about labels and start worrying about results. Every state is different. I focus every day on results—on getting things done.

Democrats should look to governors, because governors work for everyone—independents, young people, older people, working families, retirees, Republicans, and Democrats. My advice to the party: stop obsessing over labels. “Are you a progressive? Are you a liberal?” That’s not useful anymore. Show people how you get things done.

And as for the other question—there are a lot of great candidates already talking about running. I’ve got a year left to deliver a lot more in New Mexico—on housing, on crime, on education, on healthcare. I want to turn around a century of poverty that shows up in our schools. I want to expand healthcare access.So let’s see if I get all that done. Maybe you’ll interview me again in a year or a year and a half, and we can have a more concrete discussion then.

Bacon: All right. Governor, this was a great conversation. Thanks for joining us.

Governor Lujan Grisham: Thank you so much. Have a great day.

Governor Lujan: You are a rock star. Thanks for having me.

Bacon: Thank you. Bye-bye.