This is a lightly edited transcript of the May 20 edition of Right Now With Perry Bacon. You can watch the video here or by following this show on YouTube or Substack.
This episode is part of Right Now’s ongoing coverage of the midterm elections. Other recent episodes have covered the gubernatorial race in California, the U.S. Senate race in Texas, and the U.S. Senate contest in Maine.
Perry Bacon: We’re going to focus Right Now on Georgia, and I have a great guest. Tia Mitchell is the Washington bureau chief for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Tia, welcome.
Tia Mitchell: Thank you for having me back, Perry.
Bacon: Yes. So let’s talk about—I’ll start with the governor’s race there, and what I thought was a surprising result, but I’ll be curious what you think. There was a multi-candidate field for the Democratic primary. The most prominent candidate, I would say, is the former mayor of Atlanta, Keisha Lance Bottoms.
I expected there to be no one to reach 50 percent, but it looks like she’s apparently got over 50—won the primary, no runoff there. So I want to ask: one, are you surprised by that, that she got over 50 percent? And then two, how important was the endorsement from Joe Biden—who we’ve been talking about as being unpopular for a long time, but is actually fairly popular among Democratic voters, particularly older Black folks? So talk about her win.
Mitchell: So I am surprised at how commandingly she won. She always was leading in the polls. We always knew she was very likely to get the most votes on primary night—if there was going to be a runoff, she was going to be in it. And we always knew there was a chance she could win outright. But I thought it was going to be more of a nail-biter if she won outright, whereas she won handily. It wasn’t even close. It wasn’t even a question, really, for most of the night—would she win without the need of a runoff.
And I do believe that what really helped her was her name recognition away from metro Atlanta. However, she did very well in metro Atlanta, which was a question in the weeks leading up to the election during early voting. There was a lot of online discourse about her record as mayor, her decision not to run for a second term, and a lot of people on social media were talking about why they were not supporting Mayor Bottoms.
And then even beyond that kind of anecdotal evidence, my colleague Riley Bunch did an article about how many of the people who served alongside Mayor Bottoms when she was mayor or on the Atlanta City Council—so these are the people who know her governing style best—were not supporting her race for governor. And that also speaks volumes.
But her name recognition—and I do think the Biden endorsement—really was a signal to older Black voters. The fact that she’s a Black woman who has this brand as being a strong, accomplished Black woman—that means a lot to Black voters. And so she was able to overcome some of those weaknesses.
The question now is: does she work to mend those gaps? Not because these people aren’t going to support her—because it’s not like they’re going to vote Republican—but does she say, I want people to be enthusiastic about me. I have some work to do.
Bacon: I don’t want to liken them, but the person who was last the Democratic nominee for governor in Georgia, Stacey Abrams—another Black woman. We’ve never had a Black woman governor in the history of the United States, horribly enough.
So talk about how Bottoms might be better or worse politically compared to Abrams, and if her chances of winning are better, worse, the same. Talk about where she stands compared to Abrams.
Mitchell: Yeah. So I covered both of Stacey Abrams’s campaigns. She ran in 2018 and 2022. She was, in 2018, a rock star. Keisha Lance Bottoms is not Stacey Abrams 2018. Keisha Lance Bottoms—her personality is a little bit more subdued. She’s more soft-spoken. She does well when she needs to, but she doesn’t have that natural way of connecting with people just in general. She’s just a shyer person.
Stacey Abrams literally went to all 159 Georgia counties. She was packing out rural counties and getting out the vote, and it paid off—she got so close in 2018. Even four years later in 2022, Stacey Abrams wasn’t the same candidate—wasn’t as enthusiastic, didn’t come across as connecting as well—and struggled as a result against then-incumbent Brian Kemp.
So I would say, I’ve talked about the personality differences, but I think it’s going to be interesting to see how Keisha Lance Bottoms campaigns statewide. She and Stacey Abrams are not known to be particularly close, but does she get in touch with Abrams’s team? Is there conversation about what did and didn’t work, particularly in 2018 when Stacey Abrams got so close?
There’s also no evidence that she’s particularly close to Raphael Warnock, who is the only Black Democrat to win statewide in Georgia in recent elections. Does she reach out to his team? I know for a fact some of Team Warnock were among the people who were very critical of Keisha Lance Bottoms’s campaign.
Her people—little tea for your viewers—some, I’m not saying all, but some of her people aren’t necessarily Georgia campaign advisers. So it’s going to be interesting how Mayor Bottoms figures out, again, how to move forward. But if nothing else, there is a path that Stacey Abrams and Raphael Warnock have laid out for her.
Bacon: Let me ask a couple more Bottoms questions. I guess the first is: my perception is that she might be perceived as more conservative than Abrams, who had worked on voting rights and so on, and that might be a feature—she’s more business, more pro-police—
Mitchell: Pro-family—
Bacon: And two, 2026 looks to be a pretty Democratic year overall, nationally. So is it possible that while she’s not maybe the most charismatic person, she might do better than Abrams 2022, for sure?
Mitchell: Yeah, I think so. Again, even her critics have said, “If she becomes the nominee, I will support her.” Now, they were hoping for a runoff—they were hoping that either Michael Thurmond or Jason Esteves would have a head-to-head matchup and Democratic voters would be forced to make a more conscious choice about Keisha Lance Bottoms. But they didn’t get that—she won outright. So now they have a choice and some soul-searching to do as well.
But I do think that the climate bodes well for Democrats in Georgia. Now it’s about organizing. I will say, to your point, Perry—Senator Ossoff, who did not have a primary—he ran unopposed, so we always knew he was going to be at the top of the ticket in November. He quickly put out a statement saying he welcomed Keisha Lance Bottoms and supported her campaign. He did that overnight. So it’s clear that Ossoff is ready to be on the ticket with her, and his team is already thinking about what that looks like.
Bacon: So talk about the Republican primary for governor, which is now going into a runoff, because I thought the—I’m going to call him the billionaire for now—I thought he was going to finish ahead, but he did not. So talk about that race a little bit.
Mitchell: The billionaire—I think people forget—most people had never heard of him until roughly February 7th. Not even four months ago. So he went from zero—not even a candidate, no known political aspirations—to, in less than four months, being one of the two people who could be the Republican nominee for governor.
Bacon: His name is Rick Jackson. I forgot him briefly.
Mitchell: Oh yeah, yes. You were saying “the billionaire.” That’s what we call him, even when we do know his name in Georgia. So that didn’t stick out to me. Yeah. But yes, Rick Jackson.
Lieutenant Governor Burt Jones was the heir apparent—he was lieutenant governor wanting to move up to governor. He’s a very Trumpy, MAGA Republican. He has a rich father who was going to bankroll his campaign. Didn’t really have any competition in the MAGA lane. His biggest competition was Attorney General Chris Carr, who is a kind of traditional, old-school-style Republican, and Brad Raffensperger, the secretary of state, who—
Bacon: Famously not a Trump Republican, yeah.
Mitchell: Yes. Famously not a Trump Republican. Conservative, both of them—but not MAGA Trump Republicans. And so Burt Jones was the him. And then here comes, in February, a guy who clearly has it out for Burt Jones. It’s a little personal.
They started by—and again, Rick Jackson says he has nothing to do with it, but there is evidence indicating that at least people aligned with him do—there were attack ads for a couple of months before Rick Jackson launched his campaign, a dark money group attacking Burt Jones. And then here comes Rick Jackson, saying, Burt Jones is not the guy you think he is. I can do this better. I can be MAGA, but I have my own bootstrap story. I don’t need daddy’s money. And he gets to the runoff.
Bacon: Let’s talk about the Senate race now. Ossoff, as you noted, uncontested—and doing real—we talked about it last time you were on. He’s got good fundraising, and he’s in good shape. Talk about the primary for the Republican side, which has also gone to a runoff.
Mitchell: Yes. So I was at U.S. Representative Mike Collins’s watch party last night. He did get the most votes, made it to the runoff pretty easily. And the question was: who would be the other guy in the runoff? It turned out to be former football coach Derek Dooley, who was endorsed by Governor Brian Kemp.
You might remember that Leader Thune and President Trump wanted Kemp to run. He was seen as the best Republican who could beat Ossoff, because Republicans know Ossoff is going to be a strong candidate. Kemp said, I will not run, but I’ll find you someone that I think can beat Ossoff. He selected Derek Dooley—a political unknown, but with a famous last name because his dad is Vince Dooley, the famous Georgia coach.
Derek Dooley was not as successful as a football coach, but because of Brian Kemp’s endorsement, he was able to get to that second-place spot, particularly because it resonated with Republicans in metro Atlanta, where Brian Kemp is very visible. The odd man out was another congressman, Buddy Carter, who was in third place last night.
Bacon: So has Trump endorsed in either one of these primaries?
Mitchell: Trump endorsed Burt Jones in the governor’s primary, and even in the days leading up to election day, reiterated that support—did a tele-rally with Burt Jones ahead of early voting. Trump is in for Burt Jones. But he has not attacked Rick Jackson the way he often attacks the opponents of people he’s endorsed.
In the Senate primary, he did not endorse. Now, Mike Collins is pretty MAGA. He’s also close with the White House—he was the lead sponsor of the Laken Riley Act, which is the first bill that Trump signed into law in his second term. He’s got this social media feed that really speaks to MAGA bros online. So he’s seen as the most Trumpy of the candidates.
But Brian Kemp, I think, was successful—he has this truce with President Trump, and it’s been a mutually beneficial truce for both men. I think part of that truce was Trump staying out of endorsing. I don’t think he would endorse Dooley—someone who, again, he’s not just a political unknown. He didn’t even vote.
He admits he didn’t even vote for 20 years, didn’t vote for Trump, didn’t really get politically active until the Biden administration. I think he voted for Trump in 2024 but didn’t in 2016 or 2020. So anyway—didn’t endorse. I don’t know if he will in the runoff, but I doubt he will.
Bacon: Okay, so I know people who are reporters tend not to want to make predictions, but what’s your expectation I want to ask you. It feels to me like Ossoff is probably, all things being equal, the favorite to win the Senate race. And if I had to bet, I’d bet on the Republican nominee beating Bottoms. Do you agree with me? What do you think about those two things?
Mitchell: So I think that Ossoff is still going to be hard to beat. He’s got a lot of money. And Derek Dooley being such a novice—if he were to win the runoff, it’s going to be hard for him to match up with Ossoff in a debate and just on—if Ossoff can say, I’ve done this, and this guy’s been losing football games, I just think Ossoff is going to win the court of public opinion.
Mike Collins does really well connecting with people, but he is very MAGA. He has some controversies on social media. He is the target of an ethics probe, and those attack ads write themselves as well. So I do think there is concern that neither one is well-matched against Ossoff.
But that being said, Republicans tend to win statewide in Georgia, and Democrats need to prove they can win statewide. So that’s that.
On the governor’s race—it’s going to be a good year for Democrats, and if Republicans continue to suffer because Donald Trump is not giving them great things to run on, then that does, I think, bode well for Keisha Lance Bottoms’s campaign. But I think she’s got to run a smart campaign.
Could it help her that she’s perceived as being tough on crime during the pandemic and during the summer of Black Lives Matter protests? She can say, I told people to go home. I told people to get out of the streets. I’m not a progressive. I said build Cop City—even though progressives were trying to block them from doing it. Could that resonate against a super-MAGA Republican?
And they’re getting ready to spend another month spending millions of dollars attacking each other. So I think it’s possible—but again, in a state like Georgia, you cannot count out the Republicans.
Bacon: Two other subjects. You had some state Supreme Court races last night, and I know President Obama endorsed the two Democrats—I know this is nonpartisan, but they both lost. I was expecting the Democrats to win those races, or the Democratic-endorsed judges to win those races. So how did it happen there, you think?
Mitchell: So I think—and I’ve actually been talking to my coworkers about that—we’re going to need to really dig into the numbers and talk to voters. But I do think there was a lot of confusion, because it was a primary night with one race on the ballot that not only was it not a primary, there would be no runoff.
Georgians are used to jungle primaries sometimes where everyone’s on the ballot together regardless of party, and then the top two go to a runoff. And don’t get me wrong, there were only two candidates in these races. But I don’t know if it really fully translated, particularly to low-information voters, that this was not a primary—this was not something where you will see these candidates again. This is one ballot, and this will decide the winner.
And especially if you’re a Democrat and you pull a Democratic primary ballot and see two names under the state Supreme Court—one’s an incumbent and one’s not—are you thinking perhaps both of these are Democrats?
Bacon: I see.
Mitchell: I don’t know. But we know it was by design, right? There was a choice to put this non-primary race on a primary ballot, and that choice was definitely not made by Democrats.
So yes, could the Democratic Party maybe have done better with informing voters—not just about Miracle Rankin and Jen Jordan, but telling them they’re on the ballot, You’ve got to vote on Tuesday, it’s not a runoff, it’s not a primary, pay attention, at the bottom of your already lengthy ballot there’s this Supreme Court race?
I do think you’re hearing people saying, Georgia, don’t feel too bad. Wisconsin had to figure this out. They’re about 10 years ahead of you in figuring this out. So Georgia, this is step one, but you’re going to have to learn how Wisconsin did it. I’ve seen a lot of that chatter on social media as well.
Bacon: Just to clarify: Wisconsin Democrats have gotten good at telling people, Judicial races are partisan—vote for this person, and then they’ve won these races.
Mitchell: Yes.
Bacon: Let’s finish with the potential—something that didn’t happen on Tuesday, but all these other states in the South are redistricting right now. South Carolina’s doing it. Louisiana just did it. Tennessee just did it. What’s happening in Georgia? Because Kemp has said a couple of different things now. Your seats are—there are 14 Georgia seats, nine Republican, five Democratic. It could make a big difference if changes happen there. So what’s going on in terms of redistricting?
Mitchell: So we talked about Georgia having a runoff—it’s June 16th. The redistricting special session is June 17th.
Bacon: Okay. So it’s happening.
Mitchell: They are considering—it’s happening. But the difference is Kemp has said all along, We are not redistricting for 2026. What they are doing is redistricting for 2028—but they’re doing it now, just in case Keisha Lance Bottoms becomes governor—
Bacon: I see.
Mitchell: —and has power to not call a redistricting special session. They would lock in the map for two years.
Bacon: So they’re not canceling elections, which is bad—and I’m glad they’re not doing that—or changing the rules, but they are locking in the maps for the future.
Mitchell: That is their plan. Now, we expect massive protests. The concern with any of these states is, in their eagerness to redistrict, do they try to get one or two seats in Georgia’s congressional map? And how does that affect all the other seats?
Because at the end of the day, Georgia is a purple state. There are a lot of Democratic voters you’ve got to put elsewhere—not just in metro Atlanta. However you carve up Augusta and Macon and Albany and Columbus and Savannah will affect the congressional races in those areas, which are not small cities with lots of Democratic voters.
Southwest Georgia—Sanford Bishop’s seat is the main target. He is a long-term Democrat, the dean of Georgia’s congressional delegation, seeking—I believe it’s either a 17th or 19th term. His seat is already a toss-up seat, it’s just that he’s just such an entrenched incumbent that Republicans have realized it’s not worth trying to take him out—he’s too strong. But should he retire, that seat’s already a toss-up. Do they make it even more Republican?
But it’s a very Black area—it is the Black Belt, basically the descendants of plantation slaves and sharecroppers. And they’ve remained in rural Southwest Georgia for generations. So again, it’s going to be hard to make that district more Republican without affecting the GOP districts that are its neighbors.
Bacon: Do we have a version of a map they’ve written? Have they written a map already?
Mitchell: Not that we’ve seen. We have heard that 10 or 11 are both under discussion.
Bacon: So final question. This is not about Georgia, but you follow national politics—what do you make of Thomas Massie losing last night? We saw Cassidy lose a few days ago. We saw those Indiana members. The theme I’m getting at is: is Trump still very strong among his party’s elites?
Mitchell: Absolutely. And Perry, we’re both from Louisville. I was in Louisville for a couple of weeks earlier this month, so I know about the back-to-back ads that were either attacking or defending Thomas Massie. I do think that it shows how much Trump has control over the party.
Now, we can talk about whether that will help Republicans, again, in competitive seats, in swing states. But in the party, Trump has—I would say—strengthened his power over the party, because now there’s going to be an effect on other Republicans who say, “I want to keep my seat, so I might keep my mouth shut, even though I really don’t agree with what’s going on.”
Maybe—the Epstein files were what took Thomas Massie out. Now he may be targeting other Republicans who voted with Democrats to force the release of the Epstein files. For a long time, I thought Thomas Massie and people like Marjorie Taylor Greene had a strong enough brand in their districts that they could coexist even with Trump criticism. Quite frankly, Massie had done that for a few cycles. But the fact he wasn’t able to do it this cycle shows that Trump has strengthened his grip.
Even Marjorie Taylor Greene—had she chosen to stay and run for reelection and not resign—she probably would have lost last night. So I do think it may have a chilling effect on the Republican Party. I think we’re going to see it with this thin margin in the House. It might help Mike Johnson, because now I think a lot of members are going to say, Once Trump says we do a thing, we do it, and we don’t push back.
Bacon: I see. Thanks, Tia. Tell everybody where they can find your work, both social media–wise and in text.
Mitchell: Thank you. I’m at the Atlanta Journal-Constitution—please check us out at ajc.com. You can just Google Tia Mitchell. I’m on all the things, including here on Substack—I’ll post a comment to this video so that you guys can find my profile. I’m on X @AJConWashington. I’m on Bluesky at tiamitchell.com. So yeah, find me—I love to interact. And thanks again for having me, Perry.
Bacon: Good to see you, Tia. Thank you. Bye.
