This is a lightly edited transcript of the November 5 edition of Right Now With Perry Bacon. You can watch the video here or by following this show on YouTube or Substack.
Perry Bacon: Good afternoon. I’m Perry Bacon. I’m the host of Right Now by The New Republic. I’m joined today by Maurice Mitchell. He’s the head of the Working Families Party, which works to elect Democrats—select candidates, Democrats, some non-Democrats—across the country who push for progressive policy change.
So, Maurice, welcome.
Maurice Mitchell: It’s good to be with you.
Bacon: So, talk about last night—like, when it was called. I know you’ve been working with, you know, on this not only for Mamdani, but, more importantly, you’ve been working to help elect this kind of candidate for a long time. So what was it like when it was called for him?
Mitchell: It’s hard to put it into words. I was at the victory party. It was electric. And what I saw represented at the victory party were folks from grassroots organizations, folks from unions, folks from the DSA, folks from the Working Families Party — a lot of young people, people of all races, but, you know, people of all generations coming together and being the expression of the movement and the candidacy that Zohran was able to build.
And at the Working Families Party, what we’ve always shared was our belief that we could build majorities, and we could create a solidarity politics that includes people of all stripes around an agenda that focuses like a laser on what working people are saying. And what working people have been saying for a very long time is that affordability is a crisis, right?
There are real reasons for that. And the billionaires that spent more than $20 million against Zohran are the actual reason for it, right? And so on top of Zohran running on affordability and running on free buses and childcare and a rent freeze, he was also running against those billionaires. He was also running against Trump.
And so there were villains — Trump and his MAGA billionaires — and also the billionaires behind Cuomo and some of the oligarchs inside of the Democratic Party, right? Let’s be clear about that. And the heroes were the people, right? What Zohran said in his victory speech — he said to Trump, he reserved some time to speak directly to Trump — and he said, “Before you could get to any of us, you have to get through all of us.”
And so I think the campaign really exuded that type of solidarity politics that we, as the Working Families Party, believe — that is how we’ll be able to defeat authoritarianism.
Bacon: I wanna emphasize in this case, it seems like he didn’t just defeat his opponent.
He defeated the billionaire class. He defeated Trump. He defeated some Democrats who were against him. He defeated, in some ways — I hate to say this — the New York Times coverage, where the Times, like, over-the-top, crazy bias against… So this was a big— the people lined up against him.
Like, you know, Senator Schumer, who would not endorse him. Senator Gillibrand would not endorse him. This is a win in the sense that he beat a lot of forces, not just… this is not just what, in Virginia and New Jersey, where you beat a standard person in the party.
He had to beat a lot of— he had to beat the power structure, right?
Mitchell: Not only did he, and we defeat the New York Times, but we also defeated the New York Post, right?
Bacon: And the Wall Street Journal in some ways.
Mitchell: Right. I mean, and to me, what that says is that there are a set of elite politics that are shared across the two major parties. And sometimes, like, there are a set of elite benefactors that support both — both of the major parties.
And to be clear, one party is an authoritarian fascist party, but the other party is a status quo party. And I think it speaks to a desire — a hunger — for this third space in American politics that Zohran was able to capture, that the Working Families Party has been designed to build. This third space in American politics that is anchored to unions, grassroots organizations, and activists — coming from grassroots the same way that the two major parties are generally anchored to the interests of different members of the Wall Street class, sometimes the same billionaires — folks in AIPAC, AI, crypto, pharma, the real estate lobby, and the Fraternal Order of Police.
And so I think what’s so powerful about Zohran’s victory — and it was a resounding victory, I mean, by any measure this is a clear mandate, right? — what’s great about it is not really that he won, but how he won. How he was able to construct that coalition.
The fact that after the primary election, where the Working Families Party was deeply involved — after the primary election, the campaign did not rest on its laurels. There was a laser-like focus on building the tent.
Going beyond the primary victory coalition and continuing to argue to people who either didn’t vote in the primary or voted for one of his primary opponents, right?
And that obsession with creating a bigger we is how we build a politics that could defeat authoritarianism.
Bacon: Lemme focus on two parts of the win I want to focus on specifically.
It appears, according to — the exit polls are always messy — but there’s been this narrative that progressive candidates can’t win Black voters, can’t win Latino voters, can’t win minorities, can’t win lower-income voters.
Look at the data — he won all those groups. Talk about that a little bit.
Was that — that was always a myth to me — but talk about why that was debunked last night.
Mitchell: I mean, so there’s, there’s nothing like the data. So Zohran Mamdani, I think, won Black voters — I think he won like 83% of Black voters, you know, under 30. He won Black voters, older Black voters — you know, he won so many different demographic groups that there’s very little ground to stand on to declare anything but a resounding, you know, what we like to call a molly whopping.
Like there was the resounding victory, and then there’s this narrative that only upper-middle-class people actually want things like free buses or rent freezes or whatever. I mean, he won the vast majority of middle-class and working-class voters who are earning under a hundred thousand dollars.
It was Cuomo that won the— yes. So that narrative has flipped on its head. This is a bad day for all the folks who claimed that this type of politics only would appeal to a certain segment of the electorate or was some sort of elite politics. Everyday people embraced this candidacy.
And it also — it’s a mark to how the campaign was run. Again, like, winning with a coalition that brought the primary victory to fore, but then not in any way ceasing — on building on that momentum in order to reach out to, you know, folks inside of the Democratic Party that are not part of the Working Families Party, Zohran wing of that coalition, right?
And winning them over and gaining endorsements of a number of labor unions that were with his opponents, gaining endorsements with a number of local elected officials, you know, that were not necessarily aligned or not part of our coalition — that is what politics is about. And doing it well. And recognizing that if you’re gonna govern, you have to govern the entire city.
Which means, like, this mandate was important. Winning more than a million voters was important. Having, having 15% — I think we’re still counting — but 15% of the vote come from the Working Families Party line. Having the Working Families Party…
Bacon: The candidate himself, correct?
Mitchell: Yes. It’s that the candidate, you know, all three of the citywide elected officials, Zohran Mamdani, who is the incoming mayor, Jumaane Williams, who will be the public advocate, and the outgoing comptroller, Brad Lander.
All of them voted on the Working Families Party line, and all of them are members of the Working Families Party, you know, and come through our politics. So this is also, this is a big day for the Working Families Party. Like we had, we had independent Working Families Party elected officials win in Connecticut and New York, and people who didn’t run as Democrats at all. Right. So like this is, this is actually, I think, a clear victory for the style of politics that we’ve been arguing for, for more than 20 years.
Bacon: Okay, so Zohran is—I’m gonna say—good-looking, charismatic, charming. He’s running in New York City. He’s running on free buses, public grocery stores.
Those ideas might not resonate as much in Des Moines, or places where it’s easy to drive. And I live in Louisville—free buses are not gonna make people go crazy. So what can we take? We’re not gonna have a Zohran everywhere, and everywhere is not New York City. So what can you take to other places? I know that you’ve done this a long time, but what can other places…
Mitchell: Yeah. You know, like, I like, I think it’s important for people to understand that every election is won on its own merits, and every city or county or state has its particular features. Right. But Zohran is a very New York candidate. And he loves the city, and he loves the people of New York. And you need, you need to recruit candidates that actually, actually want the job, love their city.
Right. And that’s really important. And that person will look different based on where you are but what I would say is that, as resounding and clear as Zohran’s victory is, WFP-aligned mayors, executives, won in most major cities in New York State—in Albany, in Syracuse, in Buffalo. And so he’s gonna have a set of executives in most of the major cities in New York State who, who he’s going to be working with in order to make sure that, that that agenda—that, look, free buses is the agenda that he ran on in New York City—but an agenda of, at a time when the federal government is pulling away, New York State and cities like New York and Buffalo are going to need revenue. We’re gonna have to tax billionaires and tax corporations to make that happen. And he is gonna have a set of executives that are going to be attempting to collaborate with Kathy Hochul, who is no leftist, in order to make that happen.
Right. But also, I mean, we saw victories outside of New York City—in Dayton, Ohio. Shenise Turner-Sloss—she’s one of our candidates; we endorsed her. A huge upset. She defeated the incumbent. Right? And she’s also steeped in our politics. And the same coalition that…
Bacon: So if you don’t mind, tell me about her.
I’m sure you have memorized. Is it, what’s, what’s her platform? Just generally, what does the WFP cast of candidates like when they’re not in New York, is what I’m trying to ask.
Mitchell: Yeah, yeah. I mean, similarly, she ran on affordability, right?
Bacon: What does affordability mean there?
Mitchell: Well, affordability there means basically being able to afford housing. Right. Which consistently—like when people talk about affordability—they are talking about basic needs. But again and again, we poll this: everybody is talking about housing, right? You know, and in New York, the version in New York is the rent freeze. That’s not available to everybody.
Right? That’s why I think that there are lessons that could be learned, that could be extrapolated, when we think about what is at the root of affordability—it’s dignity, right? Because people are working really hard, working 40 hours or more, doing really tough jobs, and left at the end of the month with the inability to take care of themselves and their families.
And so, like, emotionally, that is the deep—far and concerned—for most Americans, not a majority of Americans. Like, people say the bottom 60%. I like, that’s another way of just saying most people.
Bacon: That’s a big one. It’s a big number.
Mitchell: Right. And, people are desperate for politics that can make a difference in this crisis of dignity.
That’s one way of thinking about the affordability crisis. And candidates that show compassion, and that show that they’re willing, in an authentic way, to wake up every single day and focus on that crisis, are able to inspire their neighbors to believe again and to have some hope again. I think also candidates that speak not just about Trump and how bad Trump is, but actually develop a hunger for what we’re fighting for, and are willing to roll up their sleeves and say, I am going to fight, day one and every day.
That’s something that could translate in every region of the country. But in order to tell a compelling story about affordability, there need to be some villains. Right. And it’s actually really popular—not just in New York, but all across the country—and not just with progressives or with Democratic Socialists or whoever—a lot of people—to tax the wealthy, to tax corporations, in order to fund the things that we all agree we should fund.
Right? And I think that that is a recipe—I think, again, one of the things that we’re interested in and looking forward to is actually arguing for a set of guarantees that everyday people, regardless of where you are, should rely on in the richest country in the history of countries—you know, a guarantee that you could have a quality job if you’re willing to put in the work.
And that the money left over should allow you to be able to have, like, housing you could afford, and childcare you could afford, and healthcare you could afford. I mean, that should be standard in the richest country in the history of countries, and most people agree with that. It turns out that that is a transpartisan value, and it’s something that I think a lot of people could run on—and there’s a lot of policy space open to run on those guarantees.
Bacon: So we got three questions we’ll go through somewhat quickly. I know you gotta go. All right. The first is—this is a hard question—but I know we need to have a big coalition to defeat fascism. At the same time, I’m mad that Kirsten Gillibrand said a bunch of—I’m gonna say—racist crap about Mamdani. I’m mad that Chuck Schumer could not endorse the Democratic nominee.
I’m mad that Abigail Spanberger spent the Monday before the election trashing someone not running in her—in her state. Like, trashing may be hard, but those words were not complimentary. What do we do when, if you’re on this side of the coalition, the other side doesn’t want to respect? Mamdani ran a great campaign—like, why can’t these people show him dignity and respect?
Mitchell: Well, in politics, nothing resets politics like winning. So it’ll be interesting to see the statements of those individuals now. The thing that I’ll say is that this big-tent conversation is lopsided, right? Because what I see is a set of people that I work with who understand the assignment—who understand that there are two things, right?
We’re talking about a big tent—yes. I call it the Cheney-to-Chomsky big tent. That’s right. I’m all for that. I’m all for people who disagree on many, many things agreeing that we need to defeat authoritarianism and fascism. But that requires some conditions to make that happen, which means, like, yeah, grow your faction, right?
Run on your strategy. But no faction should be taking incoming from another faction if we agree that the primary concern is fascism. And what I see on one side are candidates like Zohran that don’t—they don’t take the bait. They’re very clear about who they are. They’re very—like, nobody confuses Zohran with Chuck Schumer.
Right? But that Zohran is saving his energy to challenge the billionaire class, to challenge Trump and to not belittling himself into these internecine fights with the corporate wing of the Democratic Party. What he is focusing on is building power to demonstrate and to argue that his position and strategy is the strategy, because I do think that there is a fight to be had on the direction and the leadership of the big tent, but the way you do that is by placing your strategy next to the other strategy and seeing which one prevails, not by taking shots and, and, you know, engaging in Twitter figures, or, you know, doing things that I find to be like counterproductive.
Look like if this was a, the four quarter of a of a game and, you know, you had, you had a bench player, get on the field, you know, get on the court and that bench player is on fire, you give them the rock.
Right. And so if we’re in this united front and there’s different factions and there’s somebody on fire, and one of the factions, you give them the rock. And if the main objective is to defeat fascism, and I didn’t see that type of play with many of these folks. And to me, I think the best, the best victory… the best way to challenge them is through victory, right?
Like, I don’t think the best way to challenge them is through, you know, op-eds in The New York Times or the New York Post, and, like, engaging in these elite opinion wars. It’s by making sure that those voters turn out based on our strategy, which is what happened yesterday. So, you know, to people who are frustrated with, you know, those folks, I completely identify with that frustration, and I channel it into organizing.
The best way to defeat them is by defeating them with the people, and by demonstrating that there’s an appetite for our strategy. And that’s how we show that we should lead. And I think, like, at the end of the day, when Zohran won in June, a lot of Democratic Party strategists—they ripped up their playbook, and they started focusing on affordability.
So whether or not they like Zohran, or they wanna be associated with Zohran, they’re running the Zohran playbook.
Bacon: Okay, you know, Brandon Johnson won election a few years ago. I was excited about that, and you all supported him in Chicago. I think it’s fair to say that, you know, he’s faced a lot of resistance from the establishment there—from the corporations, from the media there, from sometimes Democrats themselves.
His approval rating is quite low right now—that’s unfortunate. He’d have a hard time winning reelection right now. So how—I’m not, again, I will support Brandon, I think he tried his best—but how do, what can people, what can Zohran do, and what can the movement do, to avoid a, you know, to have a better situation than what happened in Chicago?
Mitchell: Well, one thing I wanna say about Brandon is that in this particular moment, he’s demonstrating…
Bacon: That’s true. That’s a good point.
Mitchell: Like, in this particular moment, he is demonstrating why we were so proud to elect him to begin with, and he is beginning to build and rebuild a coalition that is strongly behind his leadership—against Trump and ICE and everything else.
I just wanna say that, you know, we’re seeing fighting Brandon right when we need him, and we’re really excited about that. But what I would say is, like, I think ultimately the lesson—I mean, you talked about it—in every one of these major cities, we do not have a neutral or curious press corps.
Right. We have, in-the-tank-for-capital, right, who have already written the headlines about the, you know, folly of progressive governance. That’s just the reality. And so what I feel like we continue to learn is that we need to tell the story often, we need to tell the story forcefully, and we can’t allow the mediating factor of that press corps and the major papers to be the folks who write the story.
And, like, I think Zohran being an excellent communicator and leveraging social media so effectively, so early, was a way to get a jump on the traditional media—and the fact that, you know, initially Zohran was not considered serious news for a lot of them.
And so he was able to define himself before they were able to define him, and I think we’re gonna continue to lean into that. Like, at the end of the day, the propaganda war is the front of the war that defines you. And being relentless in that, I think, is gonna be critical—not just in defining him as a candidate, but in defining the governing project.
Bacon: And again, I think I said the three last questions will be about what’s happening in Maine—which, a treat question, is like, I think on the one hand, he is—Platner, I would argue—is doing some of the talking about real concerns. The crowds are real. I’ve not been up there yet but my reporter friends tell me there are a ton of people there. They are all ages. Maine is mostly white, but demographically diverse otherwise.
And so, on the other hand, I don’t wanna fall into this trap of, like, we have to chase white men and that means Nazi tattoos are okay. Or, what have you—or like, saying racist stuff is okay, or saying Black people don’t tip, or all that.
He’s apologized for these comments, but these are not great comments. So where do you—without getting into, like, Platner too much—where are we in, are you, where do you see kinda where we are beyond Mamdani, in terms of, like, you know, does the party—is the party appreciating difference among its candidates, and how should that look?
Mitchell: Look, again, I build the Working Families Party, right? But what I see in the Democratic Party is a party that is, in some ways, deeply conflicted—right?—deeply conflicted about, and maybe at some point slightly ambivalent about, whether or not it is the job of political parties to seek to win.
Right. If they’re interested in focusing on what is clearly the clear opening for them as a party—which is to be the party that is in opposition to MAGA, but also is deeply connected to and willing to throw elbows for the working class—right? It seems unclear if that’s the party that they wanna be, and there’s a lot of conflict around that.
And, you know, I can’t speak to Platner—like, we don’t have a presence in Maine, we haven’t, you know, endorsed in that race, we may or may not. But I can say that, I can declare, yes, that Nazi tattoos are bad, right? And saying racist things is bad. Also, it’s true that people have stories, and people have pasts, and, you know, like, people are complicated.
I don’t think we should be chasing anybody. And there’s a reason why he’s commanding all of those crowds.
Bacon: What do you think that reason is? Because…
Mitchell: Look, I travel all across the country. The stuff that I used to obsess about is just plain as day to most people. Most people see that there is one party that they think is crazy. Most people who aren’t, like, fanatical Trump people think Trump is either a lot or a little crazy, and the Republican Party is a lot or a little crazy—like, most people believe that.
And I actually think that that’s true. And most people think that the Democratic Party are weak, are status quo, and aren’t willing to fight for very much. Like, most people—even people who are Democrats—kind of believe that to be true. And when faced with those as the only two options, that could either bring people to cynicism—bring people—or bring people to at least where the energy is. And the movement energy, unfortunately, is with—with… right?
But there’s this third space that people are hungry for, because it’s not like either of those two options are exciting to people who are not fanatical Trump people. The third space is the space that is clearly the space of the non–status quo, insurgent energy—which could, which could be articulated in so many ways—but people just wanna know: are you on the take? Or, like, are you accepting all of this corporate PAC money or not? Right?
Like, I don’t know if you saw, like, Senator Cory Booker, like, got all these questions around him taking, like, AIPAC money, and, like, he just…
Bacon: On that podcast. I like Cory, but he not handle it particularly well.
Mitchell: Yeah. People just wanna know, like, are—people wanna know, like, are you on the take? Like, are you taking this corporate money or not? Are you gonna fight for me? Are you gonna stand up against the status quo and all the oligarchs? And, like, do you have a one-word answer to all these questions or not?
And the people that are able to have one-word answers to those questions—and also are able to communicate those in ways that are authentic—are able to command those crowds, and are being rewarded in this moment where people want fighters. But it’s like the fighting needs to make sense.
Right. And, and it can’t just be performative, right? And you have to be willing to throw elbows against the establishment and the right wing. But sometimes—oftentimes for us—the establishment in the Democratic Party. And those folks that are willing to do that, I think, are being able to tap into that groundswell of energy that’s happening in the grassroots.
And I think he’s been really effective at doing that. I think that’s why you’re seeing those crowds.
Bacon: Maurice Mitchell, congratulations on last night and thanks for joining me.
Mitchell: Thank you.
